Curse

Minus Sign · Jul 03, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Alliance battles are more tactical than a simple RA. 3 groups of four working together (or working apart) make for a chaotic jumbling of people who often don’t know what they are doing, or where they should be and when.

Each map has its own strengths for your team, and weaknesses too. Using these to your advantage, or reducing their effectiveness against you, is essential to winning. Since one strategy for every fight is a short road to ruin, I’ll be creating separate guides as I get time (and play experience; some aren’t seen often) for each map.

I’ll talk about builds and groups a little, but most of this is what you need to be or what that preferred character needs to be doing.

First some general terms and useful information for all maps:

Ally: you can speak to (and hear) your allies in team chat. Useful when you and your team are capping in the far north and there is a storm of MMs on its way from the south. Learn to listen to your allies chatter, watch their target calls and the map to know how the battle is going beyond your own small corner.

U: If knowledge is power, then here's a hand cannon for ya. Press U to open you mini-map and scroll out with your mouse wheel. You should see a representation of the entire battle field. Blue flags are under Kurzick control (regardless of your cape color). Red flags are for the Luxons. Grey are neutral, not controlled. The key to winning is to keep as many of these flags YOUR color for as long as possible. If you can keep control of all 7 points for 1 minute, you will win automatically. You gain points from each control point (and killing enemies, but substantially less from the later) you hold, up to 500 and a win.

Cap: stands for Capture or Control Points (those things which need to be “capped”). To cap a control point simply stand on it…

Yeah, right. Were it that simple, no one would play. The more people of a side, Kurzick or Luxon, that stand on a cap the more quickly that cap becomes theirs or the more firmly it remains under their control. Think an old timey balancing scale. The more Kurzicks on one side of it, the more that scale falls to their side.

Same with caps. The more of your team stands on a cap point, the more firmly it remains under your control or the more quickly it SHIFTS to your control. The maximum number of pips to a cap is four, making it useful to stay with your team.

While pets, minions and spirits do not, NPC also help to control a cap, keeping it on your side or, in some cases, helping you to take one. It’s useful to kill NPCs or keep them alive depending on whose side they are on, since most hold your caps for you while you go and fight at the next one.

Cap group: seen often in the outposts before battle, many people have taken to calling for these groups (and joining them) with no idea what it means. A cap group is a group that only captures control points. It makes little or no attempt to fight players, only to kill NPCs. Speed buffed builds with high damage with light defense, these groups are not built to fight for long. Bad cap groups die quickly when they try to hold ground alone. Good cap groups, run and wait for backup.

Hold group: A hold group holds caps. Built as the heavy hammer of damage with builds like slow moving MM necros, self healing tanks and savvy snare interrupters, this is the shield your allies use to keep the enemy at bay for a long time (or at least long enough for other teams to come and help). Can they cap? You betcha! Can a cap group outrun them, cap another point, and another, and another, in the time it takes a good hold group to plod its way to the next flag? Probably.

A good hold group is in firm control of the ground it stands on. So stay on that ground and let the enemy come to you.

Balance group: referring to a standard group of tank, spiker, monk/healer and interrupt, this group can also be used to refer to as “cap and hold”; a group capable of doing a little bit of everything. While many might prefer it as the “jack of all trades” group, when you need a hold or a cap group, this build rarely cuts mustard. When supporting one or the other, its phenomenal. The monks balanced groups usually have offer added defense to the high damage spikers, and the run buffed tanks become a third hand for hold groups, stretching out to conquer controls and then return to the safety of the swarm.

Depending on your allies team setup, this versatile group can become a master of the field, as long as you know who to support and where.

Solo caps: usually referring to idiots, this Rambo is capable of killing the NPCs at most of if not all control points on the map. Remember though, a lone warrior takes a long time to kill 2 or 3, and standing on a control point he caps at 1 pip per second, meaning that if they are any good (and really spend all their time alone) they spend most of their time standing around. Remember the balancing scale? Solo cappers are a grain of sand as opposed to a nice heavy rock. Control will shift, but slowly, to the point that they are almost useless to your team while they stand around ¾ of the game, doing little or nothing.

That said, many groups (like the balanced groups described above) have one character that can cap very well. It may be an advantage to the allied strategy if the 3 “solo cappers” join forces to cap while everyone else splits into hold groups, creating 4 groups of 3 with an improvised cap group made on the spot. I’ve seen this work several times, and done it a few myself.

Orb: refers to the resurrection orb available on some maps. Dropping this orb acts like dropping an AoE Rez Sig, a 1 time rez for any dead ally in your area of effect (about half your spell cast radius). The orb regens at the shrine every 30 seconds after use so use it.

Shield: On Saltspray, the Shield shrines give controlling allies an orb that they can drop like the the rez orb described, giving in the area allies a buff similar to the Urn of St. Victor. Useful for holding ground, when you see an ally pick up this orb, get small (squeeze up close together) and prepare for the buff.

Rez: the rez shrine in your base is a useful thing to have, but the rez shrine out in the field makes for fast moving (most of the time) point that gets you back into the battle quickly. Important to have, but not a game breaker to lose, keep the rez points as you can, hold them when you can win, but don’t give in to ignoring everything else to the point that you lose the field holding this one point.

Ranger shrines: giving an attack and speed buff to any allied player that grazes their Area of effect, this is a useful control point for cap groups to hit, and a good place to hold a the start or tail end of the offensive.

Ele shrine: The Elite Elementalist Shrine provides 2 air spikers and an elite “boss” ele. Speak to him and he will follow you, a useful ally for cap groups. Leaving him there makes this a tough point to cap.

War shrine: Like the ele shrine, 2 warrior NPCs with an Elite that can either make your day or spell disaster. Cap teams may want to take the warrior for themselves or leave it there as a nasty incentive for poor groups to stay away.

Flank: to be flanked is to have someone run around you and attack you from behind. Flankers sneak around while you and your allies are busy with strong hold groups to re-cap resource points well away from the battle. A good way to prevent them is to keep one small team in reserve, to kill the flankers or re-cap what they steal. This, however, takes something away from your offensive.

Dueling: Once in game, my warrior team member started calling for a duel and got one. In All chat, he and his opponent set out where they intended to fight (in front of the kurzick base) and proceeded to run off from the fight and hammer away at one another.

At regular intervals I called both of them noobs while Kurzicks paused to kill my duelling warrior. Once, while we were both rezzing, this sneaky team member of mine explained why we had a tactical advantage BECAUSE of him.

"They keep stopping to attack me and (the Kurzick player) starts shouting at them to leave us alone. They stop at their base to watch and waste time to do it."

Lo and behold, he was right, and it proved an easy win having this distraction safely planted in front of the enemy base. Just goes to show, SOME duelists aren't noobs.

But many are. If you have to duel, I wish you'd stick to allied guild matches. Since most of you won't, insisting instead to prove to total strangers how uber leet you are, make sure you find a place that is not in OUR way. If you aren't going to help us, please don't hurt us!

Dueling can also refer to PvPing or Mob mentality, the act of shifting from cap strategies to fight players en masse. This happens often in maps where orb shrines are present near the base; players rez just away from the fight and run into the fray, ignoring the fact that they have completely lost the field.

I call it target lock. Don't obsess about killing what you've proven unable to. Move on to what you can kill, and leave the guy who pwned you twice alone.

And now…

Minus Sign · Jul 03, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

SIDENOTE: While this is written from the PoV of a Luxon guild member, I see no reason why these strats could not be applied to the reverse of these maps for Kurzicks. Intended for all, i hope both sides read this and use it to gain an advantage, in the spirit of fun and good play.

As with any guide or strategy, the plan only survives until the first arrow flies. Adapt or die; if you don't adapt, you deserve to die.

Alright, enough of that. Lets talk some tactics.

Saltspray is the neutral map of the five battle maps in the game, meaning that there is no clear topographical advantage to either side. Each allied team has easy access to a ranger shrine, a shield shrine, the center with its powerful dragon, and two rez shrines. Here, more than anywhere, inter-ally communication is important so every group knows what to do.

At the start of the map, most groups tend to split up into 4-4-4 focusing on the shield buffs to the north, the Quarry and ranger buffs to the south, and the center ele shrine with its dragon hatchling NPC. Both shield and ranger buffs have a rez shrine which is essential to taking and holding to prevent the opposition from gaining a foothold into the map. Once that foothold is gained, it becomes a running race between cap teams and a fight at the center for control. Gaining these rez points are the job of those teams choosing to go left and right. Usually a cap team does well here as their early high damage spike can be used on players without NPCs in the way.

For the shield shrine side I like to split into 2-2 man groups or 1 man and 3. The strongest of the 2 should head for the rez while the weaker goes to cap the buff shrines. Bring the orb to your team quickly for a strong buff enchantment that lets the beleaguered 2 or 3 man group breathe easy while you push the Kurzicks out. Once you have the second shirne, rebuff or use a runner to quickly bring the buff to the center team to give them a hand while your team waits for flankers.

For the Ranger shrines, I actually recommend capping your buff first before hitting the rez. Since it is applied on sight only, it’s useful for your team to go into the fight pre-buffed as you push out the other team.

Hold teams should focus on the center. Get that dragon on your side and STAY THERE! Wait for other teams to let you know what’s going on; running to support one rez shrine means that the other now has no team to support it. If there are no Kurzicks attacking the center, look for a cluster of them to one side or another; that’s where their center team is and where your allies need your help. Just don’t go too far in chasing the enemy down. The point of this game is controlling the field.

When they run, let them. Regroup at your rez or the ele shrine, respective to the point you need to control. Use ally chat to keep your teams informed when they start massing again.

Doing this, you split the map into 3 parts, 1 for each team. The center hold team supports both rez shrines and itself. The shield team supports its caps and the center and the rangers, its rez, its caps and the center. This way you have 2 teams of 8 fighting wherever the enemy tries to mass, and one team in reserve to prevent the enemy from flanking you, taking your rez, your caps, and you by surprise.

If they just get flat out smacked (i.e: you get all 7 points) you can try to hold them inside their base by camping their doors and the teleporter and let the timer run down, but this often means leaving your buffs behind.

Often though, one side will crumble and it falls to you to get it back. You know there’s trouble when a rez falls into enemy hands (If you’re a side team don’t be tempted to freak out because one flag all the way over on the other side of the map turns blue; wait until the rez goes down before you consider taking action.). Lucky for you, your entire 12 man group is now massed together for a fight.

If you are the only cap team then you should use your run buffs to quickly slink around the side (not the center bridge; that’s where the heavy fighting will be for a while, and a cap team running to a cap is just a moving target for snare users and spike teams) and recap a buff point before squeezing the Kurzicks out of their rez. Make sure the other teams know you’re doing this so you don’t get flanked and spend the rest of the game running from one side to the other, recapping unprotected points. You will spend most of your time running instead of playing if you if you if you ignore your flanks.

Because one rez is down, your teams are all concentrated on one north/south side of the field, meaning that any attempt to flank by the enemy can be easily countered by people respawning at your (atm) only battlefield rez.

Once control is reestablished, the cap team should take over that rez point’s defense (since they are there) while the team that lost it holds their former cap. Resorting to ‘hey! That’s my side! Get on your!” sounds a little childish, don’t it? Hold where you are and wait for the next offensive.

Sometimes, the defense of these points shatters and it comes down to retaking them. Just because one side has 7 caps right now doesn’t mean the battle is lost. I prefer the shield buff, so I feel that if you’re retaking points it falls to you to hit that rez shrine first. One team should hit the buff shrine and bring it to the rez while a strong hold team chews up ground and forces the enemy to respawn on the other side of the map. Once you have that side, 2 teams should push for the center while a good cap team flanks to retake the lost buffs and rez.

Minus Sign · Jul 03, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

As with most of my guides, I’d like to talk about each profession now, and the best role you put your build to. While I don’t endorse a particular build for any game; play what you like. But if these builds I describe sound like what you use, then they probably fit the role you should choose.

Assassin: man these guys can spike. Perfect for cap groups, Assassins are fast and mobile, almost as if they were built for the role. They kill NPCs quickly and can outrun most of what tries to chase them. Stick to cap groups and balanced groups. Bring Way of the Fox though, for the PvP side of things to make sure those uber melee spikes get through.

Elementalist: good in any group, a strong ele should build himself around what he wants to do. Air Spikers are great on caps and should bring Windborne speed to keep up with the teams fast pace; warders hold ground with self armor buffs that can keep them casting long after their team is dead.. Fire AoE is very useful for taking on NPCs and giving people a hotfoot when they try to swarm your monk, or knocking them down with Meteor and its big brother Shower. If you know water, you know you got game. take a balanced group and show those Sins the meaning of fear.

1 thing I do notice is that many eles do not bring armor ignoring spells. You should.

Mesmer: rarely fleet of foot, a good mesmer is something people avoid. Stick to hold groups mostly, and balanced teams to keep the enemy off balance with your Dominating hexes. Degen is oft used here for its unavoidable damage and interrupters have a field day against slow casting hold groups. I suggest bringing a snare, like Imagined Burden, to prtect you from those pesky wars. Wild Blow is gaining prominence (finally) so Distortion is proving less effective than it used to here. Oh, and one more thing: BRING DIVERSION!

Monk: If you don’t know what your job is by now, its time to delete that toon.

Monks heal. Monks protect. Its really that simple. In a balanced group, I stick to Boon Prots while hold groups find a powerful Spike healer more useful (since I spend much of my time nuke healing allies). If you have to smite…I can’t help you. Honestly. I DON’T smite so I don’t know what to recommend. EDIT: 2-monk Air of enchantment smite builds with are gaining some use in game as they can easily manage their energy while protting self and another person. See below thread and twicky_kid for more information.

Hold groups and balanced groups are happy to see a monk, but most cap groups find themselves waiting for the slow running healer.

Necromancer: MMs dominate in hold groups. The power of their minions makes them a force no group can ignore, and trying to will get you dead. Make sure you bring minion theft spells since you’ll be seeing this build a lot and it behooves you to take those enemy minions off their hands.

Curse necros soften up targets for balanced groups ; I just wish they were fast enough to carry with a good cap. Blood necros with their wells (most MMs shouldn’t complain, there are plenty of corpses to go around) make holding ground a synch.

Necros should stick to holding and balanced groups as a rule; like mesmers, find a snare to protect yourself from mellee fighters. After all, you can’t run well so why should they? Am I right? I’m right, aren’t I?

Ranger: aww man, here we go…
Touch rangers, love or hate, are a powerful build to use in cap and balance groups and good for holding. The self healing armor ignoring spam skills make taking down NPCs easy, and most AIs here, at present, have no counters to your build. But players do. In cap groups, R/Ns should avoid conflicts, especially against any player that can hex or snare. Balanced groups and holders? Take em out! Simularly, the old IWAY Bunny Thumper has gotten a makeover with the high corpse count in this game (credit Thom Bangalter for this inclusion) makes KD hammer ANYTHING a good bet. remember though, thumper and Touch suffer from simular weaknesses.

Mesmer also synergizes well with Ranger Expertise, making good Blackout Rangers a monk’s worst nightmare (I know I get chills thinking about them)

Trappers also do well in hold groups, making the ground they control uninhabitable for the enemy. Barrage rangers do well in balanced and cap teams, run buffs letting them move quickly and powerful AoE arrow shots killing bunched up NPCs (or players). Use Rit for your alt if you like to barrage; Weapon spells do not drop off like preparations.

Crip shot and degen rangers are also very useful in any team. The damage spikes they bring take down NPCs quickly and the conditions they apply are pure evil to players without removal skills. Mostly, you will find your interrupts shifting the tide. Stop those hold groups from casting nukes and making minions and its GG.

A solid profession, rangers can do pretty much whatever they want to and do it well. Remember; speed attack for cap, a slow (but thorough) pummeling for hold.

Ritualist: If monks heal, then Rits prot. Rit Lord has given these spirit spamming players a protection that rivals and in many cases surpasses its monk cousin; and its all ally to boot! But they are slow movers, tending to be chained to their spirits. Hold groups should love a Rit Lord; protecting them from most melee and spike damage while they build their minion hammer and maintain it.

Necro missions synergize well with Spawning Power, and Boon of Creation means a steady heal and mana pool while you hold ground.

If you want to go offensive, you have more options than your monk friends. Shadowsong shuts down any melee attacker that its hits, allowing you to hex and crush at will. Your heals are much weaker than a monks, but still effective under certain circumstances due to their conditional assists.

Most Rits will find a home in hold groups.

Warrior: like the ranger, warriors can and do see use in any of the three groups. From KD shockers to Stance tanks, the warrior is one of the most used professions in the game.

And often the most misused because of it. It falls to your play style and your build. If you like to bring Watch Yourself and prot the team, consider holding. If you want to hack and slash (or bash), grab Charge to help your team run and cap those NPCs. Wild Blow is great against other players when you find yourself fighting cap group to cap group (*cough* Touch Ranger *cough*) and your interrupts disable a spike or spam depending on the weapon you bring and the skill you prefer.

I prefer Knockdowns myself, and have found cap groups quick to accept me. Whammo Wa/Mos, due to their longevity and self-management, should set up for support and get ready for a long haul of defending your monk while you hold ground, while IWAY W/Rs will find a nice cozy battle field to call home near the rez shrines too. An odd sight to me, Wa/Mes are bringing Backfire for some reason, but casters seem to shy from them. I may tinker and post a build, if there isn’t one already.

And thats it folks.

Play Fair and Good Gaming

"-" Minus Sign

Leddy · Jul 03, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Air spike doesn't work that well in AB because it isn't needed. Dropping NPCs with air spike is redundant because ANY capture point can be dropped with a single fire AoE ele, and should you need to drop human players to cap you're probably dead anyway without support.

Monk dual smite works well when attacking heavily defended points. Two monks with aura up can clean up an entire cap point in a matter of seconds.

JoDiamonds · Jul 04, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Air has an advantage against the warrior shrines, where Fire AoE doesn't work nearly as well. Additionally, any air elementalist can seriously hamper any enemy melee with Blinding Flash and Enervating Charge. Straight up spiking isn't as useful, but the mentioned support spells (in addition to Gale) make for a flexible build that can still deal large amounts of damage, if in different ways.

Effendi Westland · Jul 05, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Great guide, tho I was using strategies very similar to this I found a few handy tips in here.

Minus Sign · Jul 05, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leddy

Snip.

This is part of the reason I wrote this guide, to help relieve player confusion about the roles they should seek out.

The two build skills you describe are not analogous with Cap groups. While they can kill NPCs, and do so quickly, they can't run without sacrificing the high damage (or their durability) you describe.

High speed, on foot and in attack, is essential to a capture team that will spend much of its time sneaking behind fights to hit unprotected control points. A fire ele that can knock out NPCs like you suggest would have very few attribute points left after Energy Storage for Windborne speed or another non-fire speed buff. Burning Speed can prove dangerous without a slow moving monk to remove the condition (unless you want to take time to self heal every 5 seconds).

I’ve played with E/Mos who chose to do this in cap groups. That they could do phenomenal damage was never in question. Quite often though, the NPCs were dead or past dying by the time they caught up.

Every good cap team I’ve been in sizes up any team before moving on. If they can kill it quickly, they will try.

If they see an ele in the open at 2/3 life with 3 non-healing fast moving allies, its all the more incentive for them chase you down and hit you.

There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. But the rule?

Fast damage is good in a cap group, but you have to keep up and you’re expected to self manage.

Fire eles see better use in hold and balanced teams; their slow casting AoE spells create a protective area for their team to fight in (who wants to chase that monk through a Meteor Shower?) like a ward that does damage.

You do make a very good point, however. Any cap team that tries to fight 4v4 against balanced and hold teams will most often die. That is why it is essential that they bee fleet of foot, to capture points, gaining both buffs and allies before the other team can arrive in force. Then they are not fighting one team 4v4; they are fighting one team with 2 NPC amagers assiting their spikes or a healing NPC keeping them alive.

Cap teams should avoid most 4v4 fights. But 4v5, 4v6 and 4v7? Enjoy...if you can kill them quickly.

twicky_kid · Jul 05, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Thank you for writing this to help the new people out. This is a great guide. You view on different builds is great. I felt you left out 1 thing.

With all the differnt types of team builds you really only need 1 build to win.

2 Charge Wars
2 AoE smiters with Windbourne Speed

My guild ran a team like this for about 6 hours straight. Using blessed aura you could increase Balth aura to 350 per use and give AoE a 12 second duration. That means you can maintain it on the other monk and your target war FOREVER. That makes it so each monk can cast on themselves with 0 energy cost and would not have to up cost an AoE to protect the other monk. This build will rip through anything in your path.

Instead of the normal run and cap tactic that most people took we decided to take another route. My team would hold the Dragon Roost and defend both res shrines. If we see a MM group we would head first like a battering ram and demolish the minions in a few seconds.

This map has a bad habit of dogpiles. This build takes full advatage of that. We have faced entire 10-12 men with just our 4 man team and survived rather easily.

On other maps this build really shines. Other maps only have 1 res shrine and 1 attack shrine. That's the key to the entire battle. Who ever controls both these points is most likely going to win. Take the res point then the attack shrine. After the boost go on a man hunt (let the other 2 teams cap). Kill as many people possible you run into. After 3-4 kills run straight to the enimies base. They are going to try and take the attach shrine most of the time. Kill them again. Then go to the base and sit at the center exit. For some reason most people still try to run through you. Either they get body blocked or killed. Because they don't control the res shrine they cannot get out to cap. They could use the side teleporters to go around you. For some reason people don't. We held teams inside their bases for over 10 minutes most games.

I found this team build to be the "best." I know in GW there is not suppose to be a best but in this case I haven't seen anything else that is this flexible. The only chink in the armor was that the monks could not protect themselves very well. They had to rely on the other monk for protection. After adding Blessed Aura that problem was now gone.

After that 6 hour spree that day we started in the Keys and ended on the last luxon map coming into the kurzick territory. It was the first time I and my guildies had ever seen that map. I hit "U" and looked at the map. Saw the 1 res shrine and instantly used the tactic from the Keys map. We won every match.

Minus Sign · Jul 05, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Thanks for the support twicky_kid. Fair warning: I have faced your build before. Air smiters have 2 critical flaws.

1.They spam enchantments.

Actually, thats both flaws rolled into 1. A Diversion spamming Mesmer with Shadow Shroud Elite (which most anti-healers should be equiping for Boon prots by now...BUT AREN'T!) can shut down heals to one monk for about six seconds. Since most air smites use Holy Veil/Smite Hex for their hex removal, you only have to worry about one hex getting stripped, a good reason to run AEcho. Thats long enough for a decent staggered spike against opposing TeamSpeak teams, but more than long enough to start Diverting heals from the other monk and apply Backfire with Empathy for a cover hex in the ensuing Chaos. If one monk doesn't die, the other is quickly skill-crippled saving it adn usually takes a heavy load of damage in the doing.

Also, as you said, smite monks do not self regulate very well/very long. They need both monks DF healing hits to survive most concentrated attacks. When I War, I Shock Hammer. Upon seeing 2 smite monks, I usually call the first target, and go KD the seccond with a Shock/Shove combo (still working on the build; will post when I work out the kinks) followed by Hammer Bash for a 9 second shutdown of the second monk. By the time I bash, Guardian is gone on my target, allowing for a 9 second KD chain...but i'm still working on it; got problems in the Defense department and my chains are still staggered.

You're right though. That is a very strong build. Thank you for posting on how to use it. Like I said, I honestly don't smite so I don't run anything like that. I'm glad to see team and build strategies starting to be posted here; keep em coming folks

twicky_kid · Jul 05, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Diversion does hurt but I wouldn't rely on hexes to stop this build. Smite hex is usually a death sentence.

KD is the best solution. Guardian is more of a hamper vs hammers because of IB. Griffon and Leviathan sweep is IB you can use with any weapon. For some reason no one uses them. I've never understood that myself with boon prots being on every build for over a year (glad to see that changing blessed light is so much stronger).

KD and blackout are killers for smiters. Most builds you can use that tactic on. With mine the monks don't have a problem with self heals as AoE will be maintained on both monk and war at all times. So far I'm the only one I've seen do this.

Shadow Shroud isn't a problem. Smite hex will take care of that really quickly and little to stop anything while giving them a huge dmg opporunity.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jul 06, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

omg Minus Sign Frickin awesome guide, hopefully we can oush em back to Grentz now, oh and you hit it ON THE NOSE with the sin, I always run my sin for cap groups, and anti MM, I teleport to the MM, take him out, and the enemy crumbles under the freed minions. My sin is actually anti everything except mesmers *sniff sniff* I hate mesmers. Oh and you have got it completely right on the nec, I dunno about SS but and MM is a one man holding squad, MMs also are pretty dang good at solo capping one side too once, they get a full army, sure the capping is slow, but they wreap a path of destruction on their way... Anyway GJ Minus, Hope to see more stuff from you. +5 IQ Points FTW

Thom Bangalter · Jul 06, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

no mention of bunny thumpers under ranger makes me sad. Incredibly useful in ab with a solid monk behind them for taking down shrines rather quickly, especially the rez shrines.
otherwise, a spot on guide that more people would benefit reading. Make it an article perhaps? someone?

Minus Sign · Jul 06, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

I don't like to endorse rigid builds as a matter of course since the nerf bat cometh down hard on overuse. Also, this helps maintain the core guide's integrity as FotM builds come and go (but solid tactics stay solid).

I only mentioned touch because there is so much controversy stemming around the build atm. But once a build is introduced beyond the guide, I feel comfortable talking about it, both its pros and cons. This way, the information (even if its only a short fad) can remain current with the guide itself, and talk on page 12 can supplament whats on the first page.

However, if a strong tip or tactic does grace any of the posts from others, I will expand the original guide to include it (and give credit to the OP, of course). Since Thumpers are as good as you claim, and I have an admitted aversion to smite, these two builds are an exception to the rule, and I have chosen to include them both to help those who choose to smite and to preserve accuracy without bias...ok; without too MUCH bias (I still hate smite).

A word of caution: I'ma burst this bubble RIGHT now, before it has a chance to swell any heads. Because I have edited the guide to include 2 builds does not mean that I will EVER do so again. I will not allow the guide itself to degenerate into a build war, nor spend all my forum time adding and removing said builds from the 3 OPs. The purpose of this guide is to promote tactical thinking, not just what you should put on your skillbar to pwn. The thread itself will be used to discuss specific builds and skills, the guide was never intended to.

Now that its been said...

On Bunny thumpers: The classic IWAY thumper has been seeing plenty of play in AB due to its resilience, versatility and KD with DOT. Of note, the build suffers from simular problems as the touch ranger, since neither Warrior nor Ranger professions have hex removal. SS, empathy, degen and snare; these are the foes to worry about. With skill interupts more prevalent for PvP content, expect your heal sig and troll ungent to be interupted in the thick of things.

For this reason, I recommend keeping your Bunny Thumper out of Hold groups. Stick to caps and balanced teams; you'll be more comfortable and have more fun.

Twitchy_kid; I can't speak for everyone out there but the times I have used Leviathan Sweep have met with disaster in PvP. While it KDs on Evasion and can be used for any weapon, it can also be blocked. Its good against Dodging rangers but thats about it atm. I hope others will sound off on it; maybe I just don't use the skill properly.

twicky_kid · Jul 06, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Twitchy_kid; I can't speak for everyone out there but the times I have used Leviathan Sweep have met with disaster in PvP. While it KDs on Evasion and can be used for any weapon, it can also be blocked. Its good against Dodging rangers but thats about it atm. I hope others will sound off on it; maybe I just don't use the skill properly.

Yes you are right it only works vs "evade." Not quite the same as IB. I missed that little bit there. Good vs distortion but not dodge. Dodge is only projectiles.

I wouldn't worry about smite too much. AoE is going to get nerfed so hard after the finals. Hopefully they will increase the cost to 10e and leave it alone otherwise but I know they won't.

What if we post a team build and tactics on how to run it? Would that be fine?

Minus Sign · Jul 06, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Well, there ya go. I'm NOT using the skill properly. Lucky I didn't us it long

As to your question; this is a free speech forum. I could not, and would never try to, prohibit someone from sharing information that they feel valuable to the communtiy in one of my threads.

Post what you want. I only ask you keep it on topic.

My "rant" was to make it clear that because any build (including team) can be easily nerfed by skill balancing I do not intend to spend my time adding and cutting from the original tactics and strategy guide. Such maliable information is best left in the thread, so people can just post new builds as they come about, discuss them and move on.